Curse

Selket · Sep 04, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

it like diversion on a sin.

Anyone who puts diversion on a sin while they're not actively using their chain is a really bad mesmer.

Anyone who doesn't realize why diversion doesn't really do anything to an assassin is a really bad assassin.

VoR is pretty gimp all things considered, but so is SS, so whatever.

Esprit · Sep 04, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Visions of Regret does more damage if a target is chain casting skills. For a Monk this is particularly unfortunate. If they had Spiteful Spirit, that damage can be ignored much longer than if they were trying to chain cast with VoR on them.

Like most people said, it depends on the situations. One is not always inherently better than the other.

Also, it took me a few posts to realize that you were talking about Visions of Regret and Spiteful Spirit. I didn't realize that people were that lazy to abbreviate their thread titles. Some people don't play Guild Wars for inordinate amounts of time to know all the abbreviations for skills.

Striken7 · Sep 04, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53

VoR is like Backfire and Empathy combined (but it's cheaper to use then Backfire and does more damage then Empathy), which can hex multiple foes at once, and can then be covered again by Empathy to stop Adrenaline gain (either voluntarily or through death). Add in Wastrel's Worry for guaranteed damage.

3 skill slots filled, 5 to go (4 if your smart enough to bring a rez). Thats 3 skill slots that can shut down any other profession in the game, unless someone brings good hex removal, in which case you have 4 other skills still at your disposal.

By itself, its much better then SS, but lets not even start about the VoR Mesmer, Hex Necro combo that's even popping up in RA since this build became all the rage. I definitely see a PvP/PvE split coming for this one.

AKB48 · Sep 04, 2008, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Loz, this is really funny: even thought I think most people knows the difference between VoR and SS, they still pointlessly put their definitions up here over and over again.

/close

Bryant Again · Sep 04, 2008, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

Loz, this is really funny: even thought I think most people knows the difference between VoR and SS, they still pointlessly put their definitions up here over and over again.

/close

/sign'd on dis, plz

snaek · Sep 04, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

im not understanding your logic seeing as monster melee still use attack skills, meaning VoR still deals its damage.

# of auto-attacks > # of skills used ???

Magikarp · Sep 04, 2008, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

# of auto-attacks > # of skills used ???

in HM monsters attack faster and have more energy, meaning they spam more and attack more. adren users fire off skills left and right, and most melee blow off their chains as soon as they get to you, meaning VoR still deals damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

Anyone who puts diversion on a sin while they're not actively using their chain is a really bad mesmer.

Anyone who doesn't realize why diversion doesn't really do anything to an assassin is a really bad assassin.

VoR is pretty gimp all things considered, but so is SS, so whatever.

Diversion is a pain for all classes, in any scenario, and i was simply using that subject as an example. whether or not its considered "good" playing wasn't the point, and what was the point was that VoR serves as an equal, if not more dominant form of pressure.

SS is annoying in pvp, VoR is deadly.

SS is nice in pve when you spam it, VoR is deadly the first time you cast it.

imo, take both, if you cant, take VoR over SS.

draxynnic · Sep 04, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Haven't done a scientific study, but my gut feeling is that SS will still come out on top, especially when combined with Arcane Echo and Reckless Haste (another misplaced Mesmer skill, but whatever) and the rest of the stereotypical SS bar.

VoR is a worthy competitor, however, and in my opinion at least the VoR mesmer is more fun than the SS necro. Still, taking one of each is certainly an option...

Shasgaliel · Sep 04, 2008, 01:40 PM // 13:40

I wanted to do something weird so I run a small test. I did 3 pongmei valley vanquishes (which very fast and has more than one type of enemies). I took standard SS necro in one, then Vor mesmer in the other and then both. All other members were not changed. I have to say with simple SS it went much faster and more efficient since my necro was able to put second SS already in the half of the Vor recharge time. Third scenario did not work out because I had to take out of the other heroes who was apparently doing more damage than one of those two so the third attempt was the least successful of the two. Of course it may differ for various places and missions and in pvp it will be different as well but I would always chose SS over Vor in pve. I am quite surprised that nobody mentioned the different recharge times so far.... Of course my mesmer build might have sucked as well which might highly influenced the whole test but who cares we are not in the university and this is just one more observation added to the pool.

gerlin · Sep 04, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Well i think its logical that in HM SS will do more damage. Monsters don't tend to chain skills, especially when they have SS / VoS cast on them. A monster monk with backfire will use skills much or scares then without it. Also in pve casters attack more then they cast (looks at 55ing in bergen.), because they cast faster and attack faster they do i more often but attacking will take most time since 2 sec spells are cast way faster.

Magikarp · Sep 04, 2008, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerlin

Well i think its logical that in HM SS will do more damage. Monsters don't tend to chain skills, especially when they have SS / VoS cast on them. A monster monk with backfire will use skills much or scares then without it. Also in pve casters attack more then they cast (looks at 55ing in bergen.), because they cast faster and attack faster they do i more often but attacking will take most time since 2 sec spells are cast way faster.

you.. you lost me.

Selket · Sep 04, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

Diversion is a pain for all classes, in any scenario, and i was simply using that subject as an example. whether or not its considered "good" playing wasn't the point, and what was the point was that VoR serves as an equal, if not more dominant form of pressure.

Its a pain for the one class that can get rid of it at the cost of 5 energy and no other detriment?

Oh, okay. I wish that made sense.

Magikarp · Sep 04, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

Its a pain for the one class that can get rid of it at the cost of 5 energy and no other detriment?

Oh, okay. I wish that made sense.

are you honestly trying to claim that diversion isnt one of the best forms of pressure? one of top ten, if not 5 best skills in guild wars, and you're claiming that its not good?

snaek · Sep 04, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

in HM monsters attack faster and have more energy, meaning they spam more and attack more. adren users fire off skills left and right, and most melee blow off their chains as soon as they get to you, meaning VoR still deals damage.

i never once said that vor doesnt deal dmg
its a question of which one does more...ss or vor

and overall, i'm sure u'll find that ss does more dmg
sure vor hits harder
but ss is -reliably- upkeep'd and -reliably- triggers more times

Magikarp · Sep 04, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

i never once said that vor doesnt deal dmg
its a question of which one does more...ss or vor

and overall, i'm sure u'll find that ss does more dmg
sure vor hits harder
but ss is -reliably- upkeep'd and -reliably- triggers more times

again, SS of course deals damage.. but a lot slower. VoR is kept up 50% of the time not including 40/40 luck, and in that case, even without echo, you can keep it in the field a lot. most monsters in pve, especially HM just fire skills away as soon as they see you, so i dont see how VoR isnt reliable, and tbh, i rather kill faster with VoR than kill over time.

cgruber · Sep 04, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Dual Visions of Regret mesmers in pvp is pure win.